New Article Coming - Don't Wait to Take Action

I'm working on a new article right now on why it's important to NOT WAIT to take proactive action if you are facing foreclosure. I was on a conference call with other colleagues aroung the country today, and they are all reporting the same thing we are seeing here in Phoenix. People are waiting too long to take action to prevent their foreclosure, and if they ever do seek help, it's often too late.

More on this tomorrow. I'll be publishing an article about this and will link it to this blog. Take care!

If you're interested in working with us to take positive action, or just to learn more about what's going on, just call us at 1-800-433-8563 extension 86116 (or for Spanish 86176). After listening to one of our 24-hour free educational messages, you can be direct connected to us, receive our Consumer Awareness Guide by fax, or leave a message and we'll get right back to you.

Mortgage Bankers Association Reports Almost 5% of US Homeowners are Behind on Their Mortgage

I learned an amazing statistic today. As reported by Jerry Kronenberg in the Boston Herald earlier this month in this article, the Mortgage Bankers Association reported that 4.7% of all US homeowners are at least 30 days behind on their mortgage in the latest quarter. Also, banks began the foreclosure process on 0.42% of borrowers nationwide.

These numbers are staggering, and if you are facing foreclosure, you're not alone. Increasing interest rates on mortgages and credit cards, along with increasing use of adjustable and interest-only mortgages are fueling this trend.

Fortunately, there is a way out if you are facing foreclosure. Please call our 24-hour free educational message on the Five Foreclosure Traps at 1-800-433-8563 extension 86116 (or for Spanish 86176). We also have an excellent free Consumer's Guide to the Foreclosure Process. After listening to our 24-hour free educational message, you can be direct connected to us, receive our Consumer Awareness Guide by fax, or leave a message and we'll get right back to you. If you'd like to download the free Consumer Awareness Guide, you can do it here:

The Consumer Guide to Foreclosures AZ

or for the Spanish version, here:

The Consumer Guide to Foreclosures Spanish AZ

We would be happy to talk to you further and help you make an informed intelligent decision about how to move on to a better future. Just call!

Interest Rates, Tapping Equity and Maxing Out Credit Cards Driving Foreclosures

Here's another interesting article by John Rebchook, Rocky Mountain News. It sounds like the Denver area is seeing the same sort of foreclosure increases that the Phoenix area (and actually the whole country) is starting to experience. As you can see, common factors include low interest rate mortgages that are tied to indexes that are now going up (the Federal Reserve just raised rates again last week), people tapping their equity with Home Equity loans, and credit cards that are maxed out. This is a nationwide phenomenon.

The article tells the story of a woman who called into a talk show and said that she and her husband both had good jobs, but they were facing foreclosure because they had tapped all the equity in their house and had maxed out their credit cards. All they need now is for their adjustable rate mortgage to go up and they'll be in a real financial bind. The host of the show told her they'd have to reduce expenses elsewhere - good advice.

I wrote an article a while back about how to cut expenses to avoid this problem. If you'd like to read it, it's here:

Five Ways to Cut Back on Your Expenses to Help Avoid Foreclosure

Article Predicts Rise in Mortgage Defaults

I read an interesting article today from the Sacramento Business Journal saying that a combination of factors (declining sales, slower appreciation, and rising interest rates) will lead to an increase in mortgage defaults this year and next. The first step toward a foreclosure is getting behind, or defaulting, on your mortgage. Many lenders will place a borrower in default (and file an official notice of default in the public record) after a couple missed payments.

Another interesting point the article made was that Las Vegas and Phoenix, two very hot real estate markets in the last year, are cooling down. The analyst quoted in the article said that prices are dropping in both of these markets.

This can make it harder to avoid foreclosure by selling the house, since it's taking longer to sell in Phoenix, and the sales prices are not as high as they were. An over-leveraged house may be impossible to sell, since more is owed on it than it can be sold for on the open market.

Even so, we can help, since we are experts in working with lenders to make most every situation work. If you're interested in exploring the possibilities, just call us at 1-800-433-8563 extension 86116 (or for Spanish 86176). After listening to one of our 24-hour free educational messages, you can be direct connected to us, receive our Consumer Awareness Guide by fax, or leave a message and we'll get right back to you.

Our New Times Ad is Out in Megapolitan Section

Now on news stands is the most recent edition of the Phoenix New Times, with its quarterly Megapolitan insert section. We normally run a regular color ad weekly in the Real Estate Services section, like the one above, but in the Megapolitan insert it is blown up larger and in vibrant glossy color. Megapolitan is all about real estate, and our ad is the only one that focuses on helping families facing foreclosure.

As you can see, our ad focuses on how families facing foreclosure should not call anyone about how to stop foreclosure until they call our 24-hour free recorded message at 1-800-433-8563 extension 86116 (or for Spanish 86176). We continue to get a large response from this ad, and lots of people are calling our free educational message for information. We are very excited about being able to help more and more people.

March Data for Existing Home Sales Nationwide - Sales Pace Down, Inventory Up

Here is a really interesting article on existing home sales data for March 2006. Just follow this link:

http://www.realestateabc.com/outlook.htm

This underscores that families facing foreclosure may have a very difficult time these days selling their house (by themselves or with a realtor) in time before the trustee sale (auction) occurs. This is especially true if they have too high a mortgage balance, or they owe more than they could sell it for.

We can still help, even in that situation. Just call us at 1-800-433-8563 extension 86116 (or for Spanish 86176).

Maricopa County Foreclosure Notices of Trustee Sale Nearly TRIPLE in 9 Months

The data for the last 9 months in Maricopa County for single family residences shows that notices of trustee sales have nearly tripled since the month ending July 14, 2005! The source of this data is the Maricopa County Recorder's Office.

As I mentioned in yesterday's post, Arizona is a trust deed state, so foreclosures don't go through the courts, but are handled by trustees (usually title companies or attorneys who specialize in this). After a borrower is in default for awhile (usually 90 days), the foreclosure process starts when the trustee is notified by the lender to begin the foreclosure, and the trustee then records the Notice of Trustee Sale with the County Recorder (as well as sending the notice to the borrower, of course). Ninety (90) days later, the property WILL be sold at the trustee sale (auction) unless something is done to stop it.

As you can see from the chart I made from the data, the trend line is definitely up, as more and more families are unfortunately finding themselves in the situation of facing foreclosure. For these families, this will be a time when they may be surprised, angry, in despair, not knowing what to do, and most of the time there is no one coming alongside to provide them with information about what is happening and possible solutions so they can make an informed intelligent decision.

Our company's entire mission is to work with families that find themselves in just such a predicament. We have a 24-hour free educational message at 1-800-433-8563 extension 86116 (or for Spanish 86176). After the message, you can enter 8 and your fax number to have a copy of our Consumer Awareness Guide faxed to you, or just download it here (Adobe Acrobat Reader required):

The Consumer Guide to Foreclosures AZ

or for the Spanish version, here:

The Consumer Guide to Foreclosures Spanish AZ

The Consumer Awareness Guides we've produced answer a ton of questions that families facing foreclosure either have or will have until the situation is resolved one way or another. We can work with the family to STOP the foreclosure and provide solutions whereby they can move on to a brighter future!

If you are facing foreclosure, time is your worst enemy. Please don't delay! Email Me! or call us TODAY at 1-800-433-8563 extension 86116 (or for Spanish 86176).

Maricopa County Notices of Trustee Sale Are Up - 452 in Last 30 Days!

I just got the last thirty days' data for Maricopa County Notices of Trustee Sale from the County Recorder's Office, and the number is 452! That means that county-wide there were 452 new families starting the foreclosure process. Since Arizona is a trust deed state, foreclosures don't go through the courts, but are handled by trustees (usually title companies or attorneys who specialize in this). After a borrower is in default for awhile (usually 90 days), the foreclosure process starts when the trustee is notified by the lender to begin the foreclosure, and the trustee then records the Notice of Trustee Sale with the County Recorder (as well as sending the notice to the borrower, of course). Ninety (90) days later, the property WILL be sold at the trustee sale (auction) unless something is done to stop it.

452 is a big number, and this number is trending up. I will put together the trend data and post on it tomorrow. Good night!

It's Tax Time!

Today's Monday, and like many people today, I'm getting my tax info ready to ship off to my CPA! It's been a long day getting it all wrapped up, and I still have some more to do in the morning before the FedEx deadline. It'll be good to have it off my plate and into my CPA's capable hands.

This makes me think about something we've noticed about tax time and our business of helping families facing foreclosure. We've noticed that families that expect to get a refund don't respond to our advertising in the months before April 15th. Their plan is to use the refund to clear things up with the mortgage. That's a plan that can work, depending on if and how much they're really going to get back from the IRS and how much they're behind on the mortgage, but it takes discipline. There are so many ways out there to spend your refund before you even get it. There are even tax preparation companies that will loan you your refund before you get it! That means paying interest on your own money, which seems to be a double insult considering that a refund means you've let the government have an interest-free loan all year! And sadly, some people get the refund and don't pay off the refund loan, leaving them worse off!

Don't be one of these people - be disciplined with your refund! And, of course, if we can help in any way, just call or Email Me! You can reach us at our 800 number and follow the prompts to be direct connected or leave a message and we'll get right back to you. The number is 1-800-433-8563 extension 86116 (or for Spanish 86176).

Interesting Articles About Foreclosure Rate in Hurricane Katrina Zone

I saw an interesting article this week by Martin Wolk of MSNBC saying that 1 out of every 8 mortgages in Louisiana and Mississippi are seriously delinquent, meaning they are 90 days past due at least. However, lenders with mortgages on properties in the hurricane zone are restraining themselves from filing new foreclosures on the borrowers affected by the hurricane. Some are even holding off reporting anything negative to credit bureaus. These lenders are still working with the borrowers to catch up the mortgages with a forbearance program. If you would like to read the entire article on MSNBC click here:

MSNBC Article

A forbearance is a method which the lender uses to attempt to get a borrower to catch up on missed back payments. Unfortunately, this is often quite unrealistic for a borrower to be able to do. If they are, say, 3 months behind on a $1,000 monthly payment, and the lender wants that to be made up over the next 6 months, that means at least a $1,500 payment for the next six months. How does the lender expect a borrower to pay the extra $500 if they couldn't pay the $1,000 regular payment? The lenders know the statistics - that nationwide 85% of borrowers that enter a forbearance plan NEVER make the SECOND payment! Sad, but true, and the lenders know this. Often it winds up just being a way for the lender to get that last little bit of cash out of the borrower before they foreclose on the property anyway.

Our Consumer Awareness Guide covers the topic of forbearance, in our section on the Five Foreclosure Traps. You can listen to this information whenever you want by calling our 24-hour free educational message at 1-800-433-8563 extension 86116 (or for Spanish 86176). After the message, you can enter 8 and your fax number to have a copy of the entire guide faxed to you, or just download it here (Adobe Acrobat Reader required):

The Consumer Guide to Foreclosures AZ

or for the Spanish version, here:

The Consumer Guide to Foreclosures Spanish AZ

This Week's West Valley Shopper Ad is Missing Our Phone Number

I heard from the folks at the Shopper (west valley edition) and there was a mix-up in the art department and they left the phone number off of our ad by mistake.

So in case you see our ad on the front page (below the fold, in color) and want to call to hear the 24-hour free recorded message, here's the ad as it should read:



They said it would be corrected for next week's run, and that everyone there has the number in case someone calls wanting it.

Oh well, these things happen. More tomorrow.... Have a good night!

New Times Ad in Megapolitan Insert Section

We've just finished preparing our new ad for the New Times quarterly Megapolitan insert section. We run a regular ad weekly, like the one above, but it will be blown up and in full color for this glossy insert section, which will all be related to real estate.

As you can see, our ad focuses on how families facing foreclosure should not call anyone about how to stop foreclosure until they call our 24-hour free recorded message. We are getting a lot of response from this ad. We are very excited about being able to help more and more people.

Leanness Lifestyle - Check It Out!

In an earlier post I mentioned I was at a conference in Naples, Florida recently with other members of the National Association of Foreclosure Prevention Professionals. This is an awesome organization, and we all adhere to a strict code of ethics so that the families we help can rest assured that they are working with someone of the highest integrity.

Anyway, while I was there I learned about David Greenwalt, CSCS, who is now my "virtual fitness coach"! David is a Certified Strength and Conditioning Specialist (CSCS). As you might imagine, with the time I spend on my businesses, it has been easy to get out of shape. Well, no more! After only a short time with David, I can already see it's working!

If you're interested in learning more about David and his program, here's a link to his website:

http://www.leannesslifestyle.com

I hope you found yesterday's data about the real estate sales history in the Phoenix market and its implications on families facing foreclosure interesting and useful. If you find yourself in this situation and would like help in working together on getting to a better future, or would simply like to learn more, just call our 24-hour free educational message at 1-800-433-8563 extension 86116 (or for Spanish 86176). After the message, you can enter 8 and your fax number to have a copy faxed to you, or just download it here (Adobe Acrobat Reader required):

The Consumer Guide to Foreclosures AZ

or for the Spanish version, here:

The Consumer Guide to Foreclosures Spanish AZ

Phoenix Area Sales Data and What It Means to Families Facing Foreclosure

As promised, here is the link to the Phoenix area list price and number of sales data going back to 2001. This links will open up a new browser window that will take you to the Statistics page for Arizona Regional Multiple Listing Service (MLS). Just look under the heading "New Charts Available" and click the links there to bring up the reports. The data was compiled by Arizona Regional Multiple Listing Service (MLS) and is copyrighted by them. This data is updated every month and new charts put on their page, so you can come back to this post in the future and click this same link to see the new data that ARMLS has put on their site.

http://www.armls.com/stats.html

As of today (March 2006), the data shows the average listing price continuing to rise, month by month. As for number of monthly sales, as we have seen, they are declining since last summer, and in fact the number of January sales are half of the peak in August and about 75% of the number a year ago January.

This data means that it's getting very difficult for a family facing foreclosure to sell their house on the open market in time to sell it and CLOSE the sale before the house is sold out from under them at auction. If that happens, they will be ordered out of the house and a foreclosure will be on their credit for at least 7 years.

If a house takes 90 days to sell and another 45 days to close, most families will have had their house sold at auction by then by the Trustee (it's called a Trustee's Sale). An "I Buy Houses" investor can close more quickly, sometimes as an all-cash sale, but they will more than likely want a very big discount, usually at least 20% off. If the family facing foreclosure doesn't have much equity in their house, they can't sell this way because they would not even be selling the house for enough to pay off the mortgage (plus back payments, interest, penalties, fees, etc.). Many families find themselves just letting the house go back to the bank at auction, with the foreclosure on their credit report to follow them around for years.

Our company can help families in this situation, when is seems like nothing at all will work, but it's critical that we get started on the solution as early as possible in the process. If you would like to talk to us about working together to resolve the situation, please call our 24-hour free educational message and leave a message or follow the prompts to be direct connected to us. You can also send me an email by clicking this link: Email Me!. We really can help, and we really DO care. To hear a recorded message on why you definitely DO want to stop the foreclosure, just call 1-800-433-8563 ext. 86146 right away!

Phoenix Area Market Data Charts Coming from Arizona Regional MLS

Before I can post the charts on Phoenix market data on listing prices by month and number of sales per month, I need to get the permission of ARMLS (Az. Regional MLS). I should have that by Monday and will post the graphs, which are quite interesting. They show the data by month going back to 2001. The data shows the average listing price continuing to rise, month by month. As for number of monthly sales, as we have seen, they are declining since last summer, and in fact the number of January sales are half of the peak in August and about 75% of the number a year ago January.

As I mentioned in yesterday's post, this data means that it's harder for a family facing foreclosure to sell their house on the open market in time to sell it and CLOSE the sale before the house is sold out from under them at auction. If that happens, they will be ordered out of the house and a foreclosure will be on their credit for at least 7 years. It's a really sad situation.

I mention the time to close since after a contract is agreed to, there is time for inspection, appraisal, and for the new buyer to get their mortgage approved and funded. In a normal retail sale this can take 30-45 days at least. An "I Buy Houses" investor can close more quickly (if they're a cash buyer and there's no loan to be approved and funded, but there's sometimes still an inspection and even an appraisal that the investor may want). Even so, closing quickly usually comes at a price - the investor will want a steep discount, usually at least 20% off. If the family facing foreclosure doesn't have much equity, they can't sell this way because they would not even be selling the house for enough to pay off the mortgage. And since they're in foreclosure, the mortgage payoff is increased by back payments, interest, late fees, penalties, attorney's fees, etc. This really limits their options, and many families find themselves just letting the house go back to the bank at auction, with the dreaded foreclosure on their credit report to follow them around for years.

So what can families do in this situation? There is GOOD NEWS! Our company can arrange things to stop the foreclosure right away and work with the banks on the family's behalf, allowing them to move on to a brighter future without the foreclosure on their credit. We are often even able to get the family cash so they have money to move on to a fresh start. We love it when we're able to work together with families to accomplish what often seems like a miracle!

If you're in this unfortunate circumstance and would like to talk to us about working together to resolve the situation, please contact us as soon as possible. Time is not your friend in this case. Every day that goes by the auction gets closer. Just call our 24-hour free educational message and leave a message or follow the prompts to be direct connected to us. You can also send me an email by clicking this link: Email Me!. We really can help, and we really DO care. To hear a recorded message on why you definitely DO want to stop the foreclosure, just call 1-800-433-8563 ext. 86146 right away!

Phoenix Market is a Bit Slower Now

I'm a little late with today's post! I had Pipe Band practice tonight. (I play the snare drum in a bagpipe band! Maybe I'll share more about that in the future. We're getting ready to go to Scotland this summer to compete in the Highland Games over there!)

Anyway, a couple years ago I got my real estate license to help with my real estate investment business. My license is with John Hall & Associates here in Phoenix. Having a license helps me find properties, know the market better, and generally has been a positive tool for me in my business. It also allows me to provide information to my clients that are facing foreclosure, so that their decisions can be based on the current market data in the Phoenix area.

What we are seeing in the Phoenix market right now is that it's taking longer for houses to sell. We're not really seeing the sales prices dropping, but it is taking longer to get those prices on the open market. The fact is, we've gotten spoiled by what has been a white hot seller's market, especially this past summer of 2005. Last summer, you would put a house on MLS, and it might get several offers that first day, many for more than the list price! What we're seeing now is a more normal time to sell.

For my clients facing foreclosure, one problem this creates is that it is no longer easy to just put the house on the market and get a quick sale. Houses that would've had three offers the very first day on the market last summer are now sitting for 3-4 months to get a contract, and then another month or so to close. Unfortunately, with only 3 months between a Notice of Trustee Sale and the Trustee Sale itself, chances are the foreclosure auction would occur long before the homeowner could sell the property themselves given present market conditions. To move the house more quickly would take a steep price discount, and sometimes my clients just don't have enough equity to be able to cut their price. They would have to pay money at closing just to get out from under the house, and they can't afford to do that in most cases.

Fortunately, our business can help people even in this situation and in this market. We can take steps to stop the foreclosure and work with the lenders on our clients' behalf so that they can get out of the situation and move on to a fresh start - and without a foreclosure on their credit report for 7 years or more. It's a real win-win-win situation. If you want to listen to an excerpt from our "Consumer's Guide to the Foreclosure Process" that deals with this situation, please call 1-800-433-8563 extension 86136.

Tomorrow I'll try to post some interesting market data from MLS here in the Phoenix area. Until then, take care and good night.

Five Ways to Cut Back on Your Expenses to Help Avoid Foreclosure

I wrote an article this week entitled "Five Ways to Cut Back on Your Expenses to Help Avoid Foreclosure". I posted it on a couple of articles web sites. This seems to be a good way to get this information out to as many families as possible, other than this blog, of course! :-)

As you'll see in the article, one of the first steps in controlling monthly expenses is to figure out where everything goes each month. In my own personal life, I've had this same problem in the past. I was embarrassed that I really couldn't account for a big chunk of my monthly income. Where did it go? I just took my check registers, categorized things, and figured it out. Then, I could take steps to curb unnecessary spending.

Anyway, check out the article! I hope you find it helpful!

Here's the link:

Five Ways to Cut Back on Your Expenses to Help Avoid Foreclosure

Consumer's Guide to the Foreclosure Process and 24-hour Free Educational Message

We have put together a Consumer's Guide to the Foreclosure Process that many families have found very useful as they face a foreclosure situation. This free guide contains little known information such as:

- How to Avoid the 5 Foreclosure Traps
- 5 Misconceptions about Attorneys, Realtors, and Mortgage Lenders
- The 7 Mistakes when working with Attorneys, Realtors, Mortgage Brokers, and Lenders
- Why you DO want to Stop the Foreclosure
- How Stopping your Foreclosure Can Give you Better than Normal Credit
- 4 Steps to a Proactive Positive Solution

We're very excited about this guide, and know that it will be a valuable resource to a lot of people.

You can listen to this information whenever you want by calling our 24-hour free educational message at 1-800-433-8563 extension 86116 (or for Spanish 86176). After the message, you can enter 8 and your fax number to have a copy faxed to you, or just download it here (Adobe Acrobat Reader required):

The Consumer Guide to Foreclosures AZ

or for the Spanish version, here:

The Consumer Guide to Foreclosures Spanish AZ

Why I Decided To Go Into The Foreclosure Business In Phoenix, Arizona

For almost four years, I've had a real estate business that bought houses and rented them to people. By far, our best experience has been helping families own their own homes by renting from us with an option to buy. These families couldn't qualify for a mortgage yet due to loss of a job, a divorce, a death in the family, a disability, etc., and needed a chance to rebuild their credit - all while they were building equity in their home, that they would eventually own. Soon, with good rental history, they qualified for a mortgage and had cash for closing with our matching funds rent credit program. It was such a wonderful and emotional experience to see these families succeed and buy their own homes from us!

I realized that helping families that needed a way to improve their financial situation was the BEST THING our business could do! That's when I found out that there are hundreds of thousands of families every year facing a very distressing financial situation - FORECLOSURE! Nationwide there are right now over $200 BILLION worth of mortgages in foreclosure right now! And it's only going to get worse what with all the adjustable rate mortgages and credit card interest rates ratcheting up in the near future. Credit card minimum payments are higher than they were, and the mortgage payments will increase dramatically when the rates adjust up for many families. Couple that with the tragedy of a disease, divorce, lost job, disability, etc., and many families may not be able to make their mortgage payments and might eventually face a foreclosure! Bad things happen to good people, and I believe the best thing my business can do is to help work with families that are facing foreclosure to prevent it and help them move on to a better future.

I was stunned to see how many families each and every month in Phoenix, Arizona are entering the foreclosure process when a Notice of Trustee Sale is recorded against them. In some states, this is a process that goes through the courts, and the foreclosure happens when a lender actually files a lawsuit in a court against the homeowner. In Arizona, which is called a Trust Deed state, a trustee holds the deed of trust that was signed when the homeowner bought the house, and at the request of the lender the trustee begins the foreclosure process by recording against the property and the homeowner a Notice of Trustee Sale. This Notice is a public record document that anyone can see, and it actually sets the date when the property will be SOLD at a public AUCTION. Then the new owner takes possession of the property and the homeowner and family have to leave the house, if they haven't already. It can be a sad and traumatic experience. There are HUNDREDS of foreclosures every month in Maricopa County alone! Phoenix, Glendale, Tempe, Mesa, Chandler, even out in Surprise, Avondale, Peoria - it's happening to families all over Maricopa County!

I discovered that, through our business contacts and the expertise we've gained over the last few years in the rental real estate business, we are in a very unique position to help many of these families, to literally come alongside and work with them to prevent the foreclosure, to avoid destroying their credit ratings, and helping them to move on to a better situation and a brighter future.

One thing I like about helping families facing foreclosure is that I can help them early in the process before really bad things happen to their credit. Even if they think they are beyond help, if they have no equity, no cash, or feel like they have no time and no hope - I have found that I can STILL help them. We CAN work together to get this done, prevent the foreclosure and move on to a new and better day! It gives me a great feeling to be able to do that!

So, I've made the total focus of my business to keep learning more and more about Foreclosure, its prevention, and the many ways I can help families that are facing foreclosure.

A couple weeks ago, I spent five days in Naples, Florida with other Foreclosure Prevention Professionals, learning more ways that I can help families. We are all part of the only National Association of Foreclosure Prevention Professionals that exists. We are all highly trained business owners from all around the country, and we actively work in the Foreclosure area. We have all agreed to be bound by a Canon of Ethics that means we operate with the highest ethics, honesty, and have only the best interest of the families facing foreclosure in mind. We always strive to provide the best information available to families so that they can make informed intelligent decisions. This sets us apart from anyone else that may be out there contacting families in foreclosure. We operate with the highest of ethics and really do care. Anyway, this was an intense five days of further study that gave me even more ways to help families. And best of all, Naples has got to be one of the most beautiful places on Earth! It's right on the Gulf of Mexico and the sunsets over the blue topaz waters of the gulf were beautiful.

More about this trip and upcoming plans later......